tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post6302014330522634551..comments2024-03-20T19:40:58.078-05:00Comments on The OF Blog: A few, brief thoughts on oriental fantasiesLarry Nolenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16001420558511460998noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-67966041352365413052010-09-16T08:42:16.049-05:002010-09-16T08:42:16.049-05:00Man, all I said was that I wanted to go read Orien...Man, all I said was that I wanted to go read <i>Orientalism</i> again. That's all.<br /><br /><i>The corollary of this argument is that many of these writers were thus knowingly or unknowingly providing justification for western imperialism -- even if the Orient had an exotic charm, it was a barbaric place in need of forcible correction and good governance.</i><br /><br />I wouldn't agree entirely, but certainly several authors evidenced this sort of sentiment, such as Sax Rohmer (although his stories focused more on the Chinese than Near Easterners).<br /><br />I don't believe everything was written out of a conscious desire to civilize and exploit. Many wrote out of sheer fascination and curiosity.<br /><br />As someone who lives in a foreign country (Far Eastern), I see Western culture and stories viewed in just as distorted a manner. I could argue that such distortions and stereotypes fuel anti-Westerner/anti-foreigner racism, but if I did so, I would be oversimplifying something much larger and more complex. I think that's my own gripe with Said--I believe that he ignores writers who put pen to paper simply from sheer curiosity and inspiration.Dave Cesaranohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01454928720043301400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-82861726864921273942010-09-14T10:51:36.560-05:002010-09-14T10:51:36.560-05:00Arabian Nights and Days is one of my favorite nove...Arabian Nights and Days is one of my favorite novels. Interesting to hear that it's somewhat stiff in the English translation. I wish I could read it in the original. It begins so simply and then begins weaving these stories together until it becomes beautifully complex. Said's argument could be applied to a whole genre of African adventure novels as well from the 19th century. I have to admit, though,as reprehensible as they seem now in the face of actuality, when I was a kid, I dug Haggard's King Solomon's Mines and She.<br /><br />Jeff FordAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-22273518592098467002010-09-14T08:58:19.329-05:002010-09-14T08:58:19.329-05:00Saladin,
No problem! I will look for that new tr...Saladin,<br /><br />No problem! I will look for that new translation in the very near future. I'm also a fan of Mahfouz's works, although I'll agree at times he seems a bit "stiff," as you say, in translation.<br /><br />By the way, am currently 2/3 through Reza Negarestani's <i>Cyclonopedia</i>. I think his reinterpretation of the Middle East's history along philosophical/Lovecraftian lines is fascinating. Don't know if I'll do a formal review of it (the concepts may be beyond me in places), but it is awesome.Larry Nolenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16001420558511460998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-69075738057102270472010-09-14T08:34:40.996-05:002010-09-14T08:34:40.996-05:00A couple of thoughts here: Said's Orientalism,...A couple of thoughts here: Said's Orientalism, which has probably been praised and damned and just plain read more than any other piece of literary scholarship in the past 30 years, is often misunderstood. Said's main point is not that Victorian writers got the 'authentic' Orient wrong -- it's that any attempt to capture an 'authentic' Orient is probably doomed to failure, and we should instead ask what has been IMAGINED/invented by various authors. In the case of the west looking eastward in the 19th c., Said argues, authors mostly imagined and invented a despotic, overly luxurious, sexually perverse, superstitious land. The corollary of this argument is that many of these writers were thus knowingly or unknowingly providing justification for western imperialism -- even if the Orient had an exotic charm, it was a barbaric place in need of forcible correction and good governance.<br /><br />What Said's fans and critics alike get wrong, though, is that the main thrust of Said's complaint was not that this depiction was 'inauthentic,' but that, even as some of the writing is beautiful or entertaining, it was imagination and invention deployed to nefarious purposes. <br /><br />The corrective to this is, partially, to be more 'accurate' -- to know more about Islam when writing about it, to watch for massive generalizations, etc. But more to the point it's to look at what we're imagining and why. <br /><br />One place to look if you haven't already is Husain Haddawy's (sp?) recent translations of the 1001 Nights. In Haddawy's more accurate translation, they're markedly different stories than in Burton's half-invented versions.<br /><br />Naguib Mahfouz, Egypt's Nobel prize Laureate is another good source -- His 'Arabian Nights and Days' is great, though the English translation's a little stiff.<br /> <br />I also like Rushdie's Haroun and the Sea of Stories, which is at least as good as the deservedly famous Midnight's Children. <br /><br />Oh, and thanks for the kind nod to my own story :)Saladin Ahmedhttp://saladinahmed.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-15651550902929557342010-09-14T08:13:39.867-05:002010-09-14T08:13:39.867-05:00What an interesting post! I (unfortunately) have n...What an interesting post! I (unfortunately) have no suggestions, but just wanted to chime in here. I have Orientalism by Edward Said on my to be read pile and from the introduction it seems to talk about similar topics - how the Orient is defined and studied not as it was but as we imagine in. And I see that another commenter mentioned it too, so I'm glad I have the right idea! (I'm only partway through the introduction).Amyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18102250492155489672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-11039319017293054862010-09-13T18:22:21.845-05:002010-09-13T18:22:21.845-05:00You're aware of Said's Orientalism, I assu...You're aware of Said's <i>Orientalism</i>, I assume? This post made me want to go back and read it again.<br /><br />"The past is a foreign country." As a historian, I find it frustrating how people who otherwise exercise sentiments of moral and ethical relativity can be so judgmental of the cultural artifacts of bygone eras. The "political incorrectness" of <i>The Arabian Nights</i> and other works (<i>Little Black Sambo</i> and "Gunga Din") come to mind.Dave Cesaranohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01454928720043301400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-57408645007390214422010-09-13T16:07:32.903-05:002010-09-13T16:07:32.903-05:00That one is in the reading queue already. I did r...That one is in the reading queue already. I did read the first chapter last week and was suitably impressed that after I finish a couple of reads/re-reads (Crowley's last two Ægypt novels, Beckford's <i>Vathek</i>), I plan on finishing it, with a possible review. But good call on Irwin's book, as it does seem to fit the criteria well.Larry Nolenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16001420558511460998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-60515587702405451582010-09-13T15:41:20.116-05:002010-09-13T15:41:20.116-05:00Robert Irwin's Arabian Nightmare pretty much k...Robert Irwin's Arabian Nightmare pretty much kicks ass any way you want to look at it. <br /><br />Jeff FordAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com