tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post7147568925939010873..comments2024-03-20T19:40:58.078-05:00Comments on The OF Blog: Trying to grasp a poor review, part deauxLarry Nolenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16001420558511460998noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-21800647880697143542008-12-12T19:44:00.000-06:002008-12-12T19:44:00.000-06:00Jeff,I first read that on my cell phone while I wa...Jeff,<BR/><BR/>I first read that on my cell phone while I was waiting for my sister-in-law's college graduation ceremony to begin. It just about make me spit up in laughter. Thanks for letting me know it was you who wrote that piece :DLarry Nolenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16001420558511460998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-18610267938627435692008-12-12T18:46:00.000-06:002008-12-12T18:46:00.000-06:00Anon was me, JeffV. I wasn't trying to be anon, ju...Anon was me, JeffV. I wasn't trying to be anon, just forgot to sign it. (Er, and trying to be funny...)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-79806401067705936072008-12-12T17:20:00.000-06:002008-12-12T17:20:00.000-06:00Anon,You almost got it right. But it really invol...Anon,<BR/><BR/>You almost got it right. But it really involves his attempted theft of <A HREF="http://i.pbase.com/v3/64/603664/2/50930762.squirreltreeeating01b.jpg" REL="nofollow">this</A>. Sad, isn't it?Larry Nolenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16001420558511460998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-33886803527033088682008-12-12T15:08:00.000-06:002008-12-12T15:08:00.000-06:00Larry: looking forward to those reviews and good l...Larry: looking forward to those reviews and good luck with work!Charleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02773038335190893557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-56885472205027195532008-12-12T13:48:00.000-06:002008-12-12T13:48:00.000-06:00the thing none of you understand abour larry and p...the thing none of you understand abour larry and pat is that larry got wounded in a shootout in el paso back in the day because of pat. pat stole his girl, too. those are not the kinds of things you forgive. so to those who say larry has been talking about pat too much I say know your history first. some might say a disfiguring scar and losing the affections of the new mexico entrant in the international cactus queen pageant should be water under the bridge. I am not one of them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-72789831207911008662008-12-12T10:20:00.000-06:002008-12-12T10:20:00.000-06:00Ken,I'll try to remember to do that in the near fu...Ken,<BR/><BR/>I'll try to remember to do that in the near future ;) And although sometimes we like/dislike different things about the same books, I certainly can't fault you on your honesty, which I think goes a long way toward making a review a "good" one.Larryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03828047627539361142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-11523860210551708462008-12-12T10:19:00.000-06:002008-12-12T10:19:00.000-06:00Graeme,I'll read it sometime this weekend. By the...Graeme,<BR/><BR/>I'll read it sometime this weekend. By the way, I placed an order for the book last night after reading over some of the other reviews out there. Seems like it might be worth my while (plus I enjoy reading YA lit on occasion).<BR/><BR/>Anon,<BR/><BR/>One can include insight along with opinion-dishing in the space of a newspaper op-ed piece (750 words). I think I've written only a few reviews for this blog that have gone past 1200 words, so if 1200 words is too much...?<BR/><BR/>Martin,<BR/><BR/>Good point. I suspect some of the comments about the books I happen to like reflect this desire for more of the same, or maybe slightly different. Good thing I don't write reviews (or read books) for the sole benefit of others; this is a personal review blog in many ways, I guess.<BR/><BR/>Charles,<BR/><BR/>I'm working on it. There'll be more in the coming weeks, once I have recovered from this bout of work-related exhaustion that's left me barely able to stay awake past 5 PM many nights lately.Larryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03828047627539361142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-46070384306780111792008-12-12T10:17:00.000-06:002008-12-12T10:17:00.000-06:00I'm a bit late to the discussion, but oh well.I do...I'm a bit late to the discussion, but oh well.<BR/><BR/>I don't have much to add beyond I'm enjoying the discussion very much and you can add my name to the list of people unimpressed with Pat's reviews - they seem to have actually regressed over time.<BR/><BR/>and in the sense of parity, Larry, feel free to pick on my reviews anytime (just don't pick some the early reviews - those are generally quite terrible). For all the blog reviewers out there, I think it's a huge benefit if you ever have a review picked apart like this - Gabe once did it for me for the defunct Scalpel project and I think it improved my review writing.Nethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16963540055415924510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-45040306927325490692008-12-12T06:03:00.000-06:002008-12-12T06:03:00.000-06:00In line with the last comment by Anonymous, for me...In line with the last comment by Anonymous, for me one of the best ways to respond against a poor review is to write a good one and unfortunate as of late Larry, you haven't been doing much reviews (and for all the faults of Pat, we can at least say that he's writing reviews).Charleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02773038335190893557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-83196205955879083392008-12-12T05:23:00.000-06:002008-12-12T05:23:00.000-06:00I will admit that I haven't carried out extensive ...I will admit that I haven't carried out extensive market research of Pat's readership but I would imagine they read a very limited spectrum of fiction: predominantly genre, predominantly fantasy, predominantly fantasy of a certain type. So therefore a successful review is not one that tells you how good a book is (because they have no interest in reading, say, a contemporary YA romance) but how similar a book is to the type of books they already like. And this is what Pat provides.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-89175911677430385492008-12-12T05:10:00.000-06:002008-12-12T05:10:00.000-06:00Interesting... I agree about the lack of quality o...Interesting... I agree about the lack of quality of Pat's reviews, and I get fed up often with his false humility hiding an arrogant know-it-all tone. <BR/><BR/>However, I think you are missing some of the points. Reviews like that have their place, for certain readers and certain moments. It's true that he relies too much on comparisons to his pet authors and that his claims are unsupported by any evidence. However, when I read a review I'm not interested in getting proofs of the reviewer's claims. I don't have the time. I really don't want to read quoted paragraphs of the reviewed book. I find those time-wasting: they prove very little, almost anything can be taken out of context.<BR/><BR/>So imagine we have a detailed analysis filled with quotes... in the end, it's almost as subjective as Pat's reviews, and much slower and boring to read. I regard Pat's reviews as an acquaintance's comment about a book he had read. I know what makes him tick and I take his reviews with a grain of salt, but sometimes they can be usefull. I just don't want to be bored by an academical analysis. Often I skim whole paragraphs on those reviews and read only the conclusion.<BR/><BR/>Jebus said it well. When you get a to-the-point opinion from someone whose tastes you know, saying "it reminded me of this guy and this dude but they're better at this and not as good at that" it can be useful and takes little time to read.<BR/><BR/>I don't understand everythingisnice's comment about Pat reviews being "useful for people who don't care whether a book is any good"... what's the point of reading any kind of review, if not trying to find out whether the book is worth reading or not? It's just that I prefer to spend more of my free time reading books than reading reviews...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-62659357281591670602008-12-12T04:45:00.000-06:002008-12-12T04:45:00.000-06:00I don't want to get into picking holes in someone ...I don't want to get into picking holes in someone else's review (although some valid points have been raised here that I want to apply to my own reviews, dammit... am I picking holes by proxy?) as, right now, I'm still trying to sort out my own reviews first! :o)<BR/><BR/>In the spirit of sharing though, and trying to raise my game a bit, here's a link to my 'Graceling' review...<BR/><BR/>http://www.graemesfantasybookreview.com/2008/09/graceling-kristin-cashore-gollancz.html<BR/><BR/>It was a really confusing read for me, full of stuff that I dislike in fantasy but a real pageturner at the same time.<BR/><BR/>Cheers,<BR/><BR/>GraemeGraeme Floryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15411505049326440010noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-65390642927479917262008-12-11T21:09:00.000-06:002008-12-11T21:09:00.000-06:00No problem: Here's the link.No problem: <A HREF="http://www.jeffvandermeer.com/2008/05/18/ofb-of-the-fallens-neuropath-review/" REL="nofollow">Here's</A> the link.Larry Nolenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16001420558511460998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-38064069544451191492008-12-11T21:04:00.000-06:002008-12-11T21:04:00.000-06:00Larry,I've tangentially followed VanderMeer's blog...Larry,<BR/><BR/>I've tangentially followed VanderMeer's blog, but have never really delved too deeply into his work as a blogger/editor/author. He's one of those authors who ranks pretty high on my "Pile o'Shame".<BR/><BR/>Can you dig out the link to that criticism? I'd love to read it.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for getting my brain workin',<BR/><BR/>~Aidan<BR/><A HREF="http://www.aidanmoher.com/blog" REL="nofollow">A Dribble of Ink</A>Aidan Moherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11680602160285884082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-73446954746000684162008-12-11T20:59:00.000-06:002008-12-11T20:59:00.000-06:00Anon,That is a really good point. Although I neve...Anon,<BR/><BR/>That is a really good point. Although I never really thought of it as posting about Pat (what is it, the second or third time on this blog?) more than others, yes, I ought to comment more on the others and I shall when time is available. I wouldn't have said anything if it had been a one-time thing; it was a perfect storm yesterday, but I don't regret writing it. However, I will try to 'spread the wealth' a bit more.<BR/><BR/>As for the final bit, I will indeed be writing quite a few more story/book commentaries in the next three weeks. Plus I have an idea on exploring something else, something that will tie into certain new-found interests.<BR/><BR/>And finally, thank you for this response. It is exactly the sort of comment I enjoy reading, as it challenges me to reconsider elements that aren't as well thought out as others. That's what I was hoping for (and what I posted in a follow-up, especially in my closing comments there) and I do appreciate this post and will try to do better in that regard. But there might be a "slip-up" here or there, depending on what I'm reading at the time...<BR/><BR/>Gwenda,<BR/><BR/>Glad you enjoyed it :D<BR/><BR/>Aidan,<BR/><BR/>After next week...I'll do my best. But in my defense, I post most of my comments at Jeff VanderMeer's blog than anywhere else and Jeff once wrote one of the best criticisms of my own reviews that I've ever read. Have you read his work yet?Larry Nolenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16001420558511460998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-13085896533821277242008-12-11T20:48:00.000-06:002008-12-11T20:48:00.000-06:00Anonymous,I tend to agree that Larry spends too mu...Anonymous,<BR/><BR/>I tend to agree that Larry spends too much time on Pat and his blog, and too little time on other blogs out there. Larry's got some chops when it comes to reviewing and I think it would be valuable if he spread the critique around the web a bit more.<BR/><BR/>Pat's a big target, though, and more people are going to be interested in reading something like this about one of his reviews than one about my own blog, or Graeme's, or Rob's, or... well, you get it.<BR/><BR/>It's important for the blogosphere to keep an eye on itself. Like Gav said, blogs have little form of feedback other than comments from their readers (which not enough people leave, frankly, when you consider the reader:comments ratio), and I think it's only a good thing when we call each other out on things that are weakening the community.<BR/><BR/>~Aidan<BR/><A HREF="http://www.aidanmoher.com/blog" REL="nofollow">A Dribble of Ink</A>Aidan Moherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11680602160285884082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-77954567757880397612008-12-11T20:11:00.000-06:002008-12-11T20:11:00.000-06:00Thank you. Sigh.Thank you. Sigh.Gwendahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05774768214058868450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-53091690364162560382008-12-11T19:59:00.000-06:002008-12-11T19:59:00.000-06:00Larry,I am sorry about the comment regarding spani...Larry,<BR/><BR/>I am sorry about the comment regarding spanish language on your blog posts. I misunderstood the point of your original post. I thought the theme was "petty grievances I have with this blogger" (one of yours being that Pat compares everything to "darling Joe Abercrombie" and mine being that you often write posts in a language that I cannot comprehend). I was wrong with this assumption and apologize.<BR/><BR/>If I interpret Gav correctly you are acting as an unsolicited editor for Pat. I agree with your critical analysis of Pat's review. That is not my problem.<BR/><BR/>My problem is that you have 50 review blogs linked to your site and of that 50 you choose to critically evaluate one particular blogger (multiple times). My contention is that this adds nothing to your blog. Many blogs are utter shite and when I find one that transcends it is to be celebrated. I find it perplexing that you choose to focus your efforts on something that has, at best, a tangential relationship to what you do. <BR/><BR/>My frustration is that I think you are above creating a pointless flame war with, of all things, another blogger. I would be far more interested in your considerable efforts directed at those who create speculative fiction. Why couldn't you have spent the effort writing another book or story review, instead of a blog review? You have an audience that would appreciate this.<BR/><BR/>Regardless, it is your blog and you control the content. If I fail to understand the rationale behind your decisions that is obviously <I>my</I> problem.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-54151236386164357992008-12-11T17:18:00.000-06:002008-12-11T17:18:00.000-06:00Gav, I might do it even sooner, considering I just...Gav, I might do it even sooner, considering I just now visited the author's blog out of curiosity and I see <I>Graceling</I> is up for an American Library Association award. Might just go place that order myself, since Houghton Mifflin might not be the best place to contact about getting a review copy right now... :(Larry Nolenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16001420558511460998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-78637462710448199112008-12-11T17:10:00.000-06:002008-12-11T17:10:00.000-06:00@ Larry, if you do I'm looking forward to the revi...@ Larry, if you do I'm looking forward to the review. <BR/><BR/>I bought The Steel Remains with every intention of seeing what the fuss was about for myself but it's still on my shelf. I really must read that...<BR/><BR/>I love the YA books that I've read - someone mentioned The Graveyard book and it's brilliant so far, I love Garth Nix and Harry Potter but I just don't know enough about it to make sweeping statements. <BR/><BR/>I don't think it's easy to make sweeping statements about a novel unless it really sticks to genre conventions. <BR/><BR/>The whole thing I think is beyond my skill...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-81913834823871907612008-12-11T16:57:00.000-06:002008-12-11T16:57:00.000-06:00@ AnonymousWhat blogs can lack is a feedback loop....@ Anonymous<BR/><BR/>What blogs can lack is a feedback loop. Published reviews have in the least passed by an editor before seeing print (uploading, etc.).<BR/><BR/>It's not an attack - it's a criticism which is thoughtfully outlined and explained and it contains a lot of valid points. <BR/><BR/>It is a very patchy review and not one of the best of Pat's I've read.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-11868136508762079572008-12-11T16:51:00.000-06:002008-12-11T16:51:00.000-06:00Martin,I'll be sure to keep an eye on that review ...Martin,<BR/><BR/>I'll be sure to keep an eye on that review then. I have one I still need to finish for Niall that references another book, but that one is about 2000 years old ;)<BR/><BR/>Anonymous,<BR/><BR/>¿Qué carajo, huevón? Since when have I made a habit of <I>writing</I> my reviews in Spanish? The rest of your comments are worth considering (even if I'll be disagreeing with you on most of them), but that one bit is just...what?<BR/><BR/>Gav,<BR/><BR/>Agreed. Except for me, I don't mind reading YA books; many of them have been very worthwhile reads. Thinking about requesting a review copy of the Cashore book, if I don't decide to buy it outright. If I do so, then I'll review it in the next few months, time/energy permitting.Larry Nolenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16001420558511460998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-71112700858425734002008-12-11T16:40:00.000-06:002008-12-11T16:40:00.000-06:00Reviews for me always have me tugging in two direc...Reviews for me always have me tugging in two directions. I want to share what I like and don't like about a book but I also want a reader to discover for themselves the way in which the story unfolds without me spoiling it. <BR/><BR/>So I always tend to be cautious so my reviews might be considered "lite". <BR/><BR/>I try and avoid comparisons only because it's rare that books can be compared. I guess you could compare books like Jim Butcher's Dresden Files, Mike Carey's Felix Castor and Simon Green's Eddie Drood series but only because they are very similar in style and theme being urban fantasy with strong male leads, lots of detective and rely on the first person perspective but then they are their own beasts and I'm not sure what the point of comparing them would actually be. <BR/><BR/>Comparing books in a series is different as ideally a series should progress and grow so get better the more books you get into it. But at least comparing a series you have something that's relevant. <BR/><BR/>Pat's comparisons don't really build a picture in this case and it doesn't come across that his arguments on YA are building into anything that I understand. <BR/><BR/>Though I don't think that Graceling is my kind of thing...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-13726897570392659852008-12-11T16:23:00.000-06:002008-12-11T16:23:00.000-06:00"Take away the near-obligatory comparison to Aberc..."Take away the near-obligatory comparison to Abercrombie's debut trilogy"<BR/><BR/>Let's make a change:<BR/><BR/>"Take away the near-obligatory paragraphs in spanish"<BR/><BR/>Sound familiar? <BR/><BR/>You bring up very legitimate complaints and critiques but weaken them by berating someone for things you do all the time on your blog.<BR/><BR/>You think Pat's reviews suck. OK, fine, don't read them. Instead of attacking, a better course of action would have been to do your own review of the same book. Show, don't tell.<BR/><BR/>A blog attacking another blog is tedious and tiresome to those who come to your site to read insightful commentary regarding speculative fiction. Just my two cents...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-34345290522059423432008-12-11T15:54:00.000-06:002008-12-11T15:54:00.000-06:00Intersting blog entry. There are things I agree an...Intersting blog entry. There are things I agree and some not. But I'm "only" a reader. So I follow the comments and try to build up my mind.<BR/><BR/>In the meantime I searched for some more reviews.<BR/><BR/>So here is a list of reviews and "reviews": <BR/><BR/>http://yathenaeum.blogspot.com/2008/11/graceling-review.html<BR/><BR/>http://www.emilyreads.com/2008/12/graceling-review-haiku.html<BR/><BR/>http://mynameiskate.typepad.com/at_home/2008/08/book-review-gra.html<BR/><BR/>http://www.bookbrowse.com/reviews/index.cfm?book_number=2192<BR/><BR/>http://teenbookreview.wordpress.com/2008/10/15/review-graceling-by-kristin-cashore/<BR/><BR/>http://hiplibrariansbookblog.blog-city.com/graceling.htm<BR/><BR/>http://www.commonsensemedia.org/book-reviews/graceling<BR/><BR/>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/09/books/review/Roiphe-t.html?ref=authors<BR/><BR/>http://www.sffworld.com/brevoff/481.html<BR/><BR/>http://www.ypulse.com/review-review-graceling-by-kristin-cashore/<BR/><BR/>http://www.somisguided.com/weblog/book-review-graceling-by-kristin-cashore/<BR/><BR/>http://www.graemesfantasybookreview.com/2008/09/graceling-kristin-cashore-gollancz.html<BR/><BR/>http://fictionwritersreview.com/reviews/graceling-by-kristin-cashore<BR/><BR/>http://bookshelvesofdoom.blogs.com/bookshelves_of_doom/2008/07/graceling----kristin-cashore.html<BR/><BR/>http://www.bookloons.com/cgi-bin/Review.ASP?bookid=10202<BR/><BR/>http://www.teenreads.com/reviews/9780152063962.asp<BR/><BR/>http://www.librarything.com/work/5246849/reviews/<BR/><BR/>http://bookworm4life.wordpress.com/2008/10/01/graceling/ediFanoBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11129248787624088717noreply@blogger.com