tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post7450825468899335180..comments2024-02-14T01:50:56.112-06:00Comments on The OF Blog: A piece that will be hard for many to followLarry Nolenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16001420558511460998noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-40790604085291008192009-08-11T19:28:11.390-05:002009-08-11T19:28:11.390-05:00Fair enough.
I must say, I think this whole post ...Fair enough.<br /><br />I must say, I think this whole post raises all kinds of questions about labeling and race - who, exactly, qualifies as non-white? Or non-Western? <br /><br />I'd also argue that many of the best "fantastic" fiction in translation isn't going to come from genre-oriented publishers, it's going to come from more "literary" publishers like the NYRB or New Directions.<br /><br />Re: Women:<br />I think women have done very well establishing a place for themselves in sff - they may not be the bestsellers, but authors like LeGuin or Kelly Link get wonderful critical reviews, and lots of women write more "mainstream" and commercial-friendly sff (Bujold, Friedman, Cherryh, Hobb, etc.) On the other hand it's interesting how many women writers publish books under pseudonyms or with only their initials. Robin Hobb, C.J. Cherryh, C.S. Friedman - I think sff books by women tend to sell fewer copies, so there's a tendency to disguise and androgenize.Matt Keeleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06879233228833576188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-21115939443181230722009-08-11T14:33:51.040-05:002009-08-11T14:33:51.040-05:00Matt - true, but Tempest's comment, and then (...Matt - true, but Tempest's comment, and then (I think, not to speak for him) Larry's post was about the place, or lack thereof, of women, non-white ethnic groups, non English-speakers and other minorities in mainstream sff. If by "odd" you just mean a bit offbeat, then you're really talking about something that isn't hugeley relevant.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15446040693497057719noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-27744391118695920852009-08-11T13:19:46.038-05:002009-08-11T13:19:46.038-05:00"Bollocks. You have to give me more authors o..."Bollocks. You have to give me more authors of colour than Delany and Butler, and certainly more queer people, before you can say that "sff tends to attract people considered "deviant" or odd.""<br /><br />James Tiptree Jr.? PKD had some issues, though he was a straight white male. Plus all the radical writers like H.G. Wells or Edward Bellamy. There are more ways to be odd than being gay or non-white.Matt Keeleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06879233228833576188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-22537095075020298942009-08-11T07:24:42.569-05:002009-08-11T07:24:42.569-05:00"But how many Americans sff fans will notice ..."But how many Americans sff fans will notice all this non-Western stuff? Americans tend to read very little in translation."<br /><br />Matt´s got a point here. That´s why (not the only reason, evidently, but it´s one of them) I started to write in English. Another reason is thatm strangely enough, there seems to be no room in my own country, big as it is, to write good science fiction. Almost all SF that´s being written in Brazil right now follow in the steps of Asimov and Clarke because that´s the diet the writers here have been feeding on for quite some time now.<br /><br />Things have changed a lot in the last five years. William Gibson´s Sprawl Trilogy has been translated, as well as Snow Crash - but at the same time, we´ve been seeing new editions of Asimov´s, LeGuin´s (ok, she IS good, but they only republish here 2 of her books, The Left Hand and The Dispossessed). <br /><br />Also like Matt said, pop culture in in part based off American pop culture - but here that is changing fast. There is also Japanese pop to consider now. Lots of uncharted territory here to write great new SF - but so far almost no one seems interested. <br /><br />So it seems to me that one of the possible ways to bring this globalism closer to home (to all our homes) is for us to have a lingua franca. I´ve made of English my lingua franca, but I think there is quite an interesting future in mixing it up with Portuguese, for example, just the way Larry did above. Just my two centavos (which, by the way, aren´t worth anything here, heh. ;-)Fabio Fernandeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069657285755566125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-40060760954857560432009-08-11T02:09:14.224-05:002009-08-11T02:09:14.224-05:00Matt:
Bollocks. You have to give me more authors...Matt:<br /><br />Bollocks. You have to give me more authors of colour than Delany and Butler, and certainly more queer people, before you can say that "sff tends to attract people considered "deviant" or odd."<br /><br />The nerd is a species attracted by sff, and they are somewhat odd (I am one myself), but the type of nerd attracted is overwhelmingly white and male. And that has a lot to do with how the genre is presented. I've been reading sff since before I hit puberty, and I don't think I found any realistic, sympathetic gay protagonists until I hit university (being a gay teenager who can't even escape with someone you relate to in david eddings-esque fantasy is a bit sad). And the covers of my Earthsea books had illustrations of a wonderfully pale Ged - it took me 2 or 3 reads (as a 9-12ish year old, in my defence!) to realise LeGuin had written him brown.<br /><br />This isn't to say that there aren't gay/black/asian/ etc sff fans, because there are. But what does one see at conventions, seriously? Does one instantly assume that, if it sounds Western, the name on the front cover of the latest SFF best-seller is white?<br /><br />As for what to do about it, I don't know. Privilege is, largely, and invisible and unconscious thing to those who are privileged. Which is why I think making a very loud noise about poor practices is a valid tactic. Radical feminists pissed a lot of people off. So did civil rights acitivist. So do Maori activists down here in NZ. But they all got results (not to a perfect state, by any means, but the problems with those dynamics, at least in the political sphere, appeared on the public radar).<br /><br />That's half the battle, I guess. Making fans, authors, and (especially) publishers realise that there is a large commercial market out there for sf that questions cultural assumptions, not just technological ones.Eddie Cnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-51468728834401389102009-08-11T01:56:34.159-05:002009-08-11T01:56:34.159-05:00"Editors who understand this truth also bette..."Editors who understand this truth also better understand that broadening one’s perspective, one’s taste and one’s goals to seek out and encourage fiction from these quarters is not to fill out a set of quotas."<br /><br />I liked this part. Seriously, if one judge everything after it's inherent value, and I am talking about approaching the matter objectively, one ends up with a "good" cross-section of humanity by default. <br /><br />Take films for example, I have never set out to meet a quota but those I deem the best ranges from brasilian 30s, french 50s-60s, Japan to modern-day america and Terrence Malick. What I am lacking is female directors, no matter the period. This is perhaps partly my own fault (those whose canon influnce me probably have a male-director-perspective) but mostly that women haven't been "allowed" (this is a question of structure, not open opposition) to become directors in high enough a degree to produce the same total amount of films as male directors (as opposed to the relative amount which I have no reason to assume would be different) and therefore produce quality works in a resonable amount. <br />I would assume the experimental scene have a larger proportion by it's very nature, no matter which medium we're talking about.ErrantBardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03932796866393461469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-8232634889338261732009-08-10T23:21:22.314-05:002009-08-10T23:21:22.314-05:00"The future of SF is made up of women and peo..."The future of SF is made up of women and people of color, and people of various cultures and classes, and LGBT folks, and non-Americans and non-Western nationalities (China, India, the Philippines, to name just three)."<br /><br />What, no room for straight white American or English males? Damn.<br /><br />But surely such diversity is part of the past of sf too? Samuel Delany comes to mind, of course, but I think sff tends to attract people considered "deviant" or odd. <br /><br />I suppose one could bring in globalism here too - Rushdie is a fantasist of a sort, for example, but he's the product of several different cultures. Or consider the impact of Japanese pop culture on today's youth... though of course that pop culture is in part based off American pop culture of earlier decades... <br /><br />But how many Americans sff fans will notice all this non-Western stuff? Americans tend to read very little in translation.Matt Keeleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06879233228833576188noreply@blogger.com