tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post9096966735209814925..comments2024-03-20T19:40:58.078-05:00Comments on The OF Blog: What's in a name?Larry Nolenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16001420558511460998noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-12024505349032017692008-12-19T20:26:00.000-06:002008-12-19T20:26:00.000-06:00Elena,Agreed.E.L.,Good point on the "low brow" con...Elena,<BR/><BR/>Agreed.<BR/><BR/>E.L.,<BR/><BR/>Good point on the "low brow" connecting more. I spent a previous work life as a cultural history grad school student and your comments about how each generation re-evaluates its popular culture is very apt for this issue.<BR/><BR/>SQT,<BR/><BR/>I really want to give Saintcrow the benefit of the doubt, but she herself doesn't let me with comments like the one you note.<BR/><BR/>Rob,<BR/><BR/>It's all about Sting and Lex Lugar at this point...or maybe Hulk and the Macho Man over Miss Elizabeth (RIP). ;)<BR/><BR/>Agreed about the bad fuzziness of her arguments in that second post. I think I was a bit too easy-going on her in that regard.<BR/><BR/>Jeff,<BR/><BR/>Thanks! I think it was likely a common reaction. I wish I had access to more reactions to her article, as it's hard to find links since Pat doesn't have the Links feature activated on his blog.Larryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03828047627539361142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-68346282053622409792008-12-17T22:19:00.000-06:002008-12-17T22:19:00.000-06:00Looks like you had the same thoughts about her sec...Looks like you had the same thoughts about her second post that I did. Though as always you made a much more coherent and well stated opinion than I could. Nice post (that goes for your thoughts on her original post as well).<BR/><BR/>So at least it wasnt just me who thought her latest blog was a bit dismissive, smug, and righteous.Jeff Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00865412847796927368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-22513068851339305412008-12-17T21:40:00.000-06:002008-12-17T21:40:00.000-06:00HHH, Jeff Hardy and Lita? What?!?!Seriously, anoth...HHH, Jeff Hardy and Lita? What?!?!<BR/><BR/>Seriously, another good post Larry. I think the thing that bothers me is how much appropriation is going on in Saintcrow's articles about the Urban Fantasy genre. Sort of like <I>"Well, the label is popular now and a lot of the popular books have tattoed chicks in leather kicking ass, so lets ignore the stuff that was Urban Fantasy before Anita Blake and appropriate the label just to make a point."</I><BR/><BR/><BR/>I don't know if the de Lint, Bull Butcher comment of her's was directed at me specifically but I did mention Butcher only because she said "We'll get to that." and she never did.<BR/><BR/>It is also tough to buy into an argument that vacillates between rigidly defining something, like a subgenre, in on paragraph then goes ahead and says the boundaries between the subgenres are fluid.RobBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04014122096561992311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-9427591500817118082008-12-17T21:14:00.000-06:002008-12-17T21:14:00.000-06:00Interesting post. You know, I don't have an issue ...Interesting post. You know, I don't have an issue with "low brow" fiction. Heck. I'm a fan. But I think it's interesting that Saintcrow is defending her writing by trying to make the point that she's making it "relevant." Um huh?<BR/><BR/>Perhaps I'm being a bit unfair. I only read her first book and kind of thought "meh." It just seemed kind of derivative to me. It resembled a lot of what I had already read so I don't really know what the relevance of that particular story was. But maybe things have changed since then. <BR/><BR/>I also agree that her form of response could have been better phrased. I'm not a fan of the "litrachur" reference because it seems dismissive and I don't think that's fair.SQThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04251030404220909306noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-10645783775387686192008-12-17T18:53:00.000-06:002008-12-17T18:53:00.000-06:00You know, I think I was too hard on Saintcrow init...You know, I think I was too hard on Saintcrow initially. As I began writing about the issue myself, I found myself thinking more about it. The labels of "high" and "low," when applied to culture, are actually pretty vague and frequently overlap. The genre of Gothic fiction, for example, has produced both great works (Poe, the Bronte sisters, <I>Dracula</I>, <I>Rebecca</I>) and melodramatic schlock. I finally concluded that authors and artists should just let their products speak for themselves. Saintcrow is absolutely right when she argues that "low-brow" books sell because they resonate with people. And in an open, democratic society, the people are also legitimate guardians of culture. A previously dismissed work that lives long enough in the popular imagination <I>will</I> eventually be re-evaluated.Eileenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11058705381647529328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-45729885849501521582008-12-17T18:02:00.000-06:002008-12-17T18:02:00.000-06:00i read through the comments on her original post a...i read through the comments on her original post and found most of them less inflammatory than expected. <BR/><BR/>in my opinion one of the quickest ways to strike a nerve lies in semantics (to address your point). some of the most heated arguments i have had...also some of the LONGEST...have sprung from an inability of the involved parties to agree on what a term means. and it's damn hard to discuss an idea when you can't even agree on what the idea is. <BR/><BR/>one movie i couldn't help but think of as addressing issues of women and violence and some kind of equalizing force (in this case a gun) is the brave one. which yes is basically a remake of an older movie, but i thought it was a great exploration of some of the ideas saintcrow (and some of the commenters) were bringing up about women and how they relate to violence. certainly that protagonist questioned the use of violence but in the end was pretty unapologetic about it.Elenahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09285405662294874917noreply@blogger.com