tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post1070899075774115250..comments2024-03-20T19:40:58.078-05:00Comments on The OF Blog: Thoughts regarding Scott Bakker's NeuropathLarry Nolenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16001420558511460998noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-48018603290837228652010-04-10T12:43:43.983-05:002010-04-10T12:43:43.983-05:00Hi Larry... I loved the book (finished recently st...Hi Larry... I loved the book (finished recently still in contemplation)... and think your review (and it's intent) makes more sense once a punter has read the book...<br /><br />Nice one... Bakker is now on my list to be followed...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-14657230441727830092008-06-21T04:38:00.000-05:002008-06-21T04:38:00.000-05:00I think perhaps the review shouldn't say people wh...I think perhaps the review shouldn't say people who don't want to engage the arguement wont like it. Rather the arguement will likely start to challenge them, like it or not, if they read.<BR/><BR/>And I think Scott should keep in mind that while he's sneaking in deep questions into what is usually a rollercoaster genre (scary, yet predictable), reviewers who spot the question aren't going to automatically facilitate that sneaking in as well. Not their gamble, so to speak.<BR/><BR/>And I hope to find this book in an Australian book store soon!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-45377697011912649342008-06-03T16:35:00.000-05:002008-06-03T16:35:00.000-05:00Man, I can't wait to get this book. Nuts to your U...Man, I can't wait to get this book. Nuts to your US publisher, Scott, for the late release. I ordered it from Amazon Canada, but they say they're out of copies for now. Hopefully I'll get it in time for my trip next week!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-11380703509579255282008-05-21T19:41:00.000-05:002008-05-21T19:41:00.000-05:00Well Nadine, can't say I didn't warn/entice you! :...Well Nadine, can't say I didn't warn/entice you! :PLarry Nolenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16001420558511460998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-46261554152482058452008-05-20T17:53:00.000-05:002008-05-20T17:53:00.000-05:00This doesn't sound at all like the sort of thing I...This doesn't sound at all like the sort of thing I would usually pick up, more because I tend to gravitate toward noir and classic mystery novels when I get a jones for that sort of thing, rather than thrillers.<BR/><BR/>I am <I>fascinated</I>, though, by this Argument you've referenced. I want to know what it is and how it plays out. Further, I am at once intrigued and repelled by the idea of being stripped so bare by something I read. As reluctant as I am to let myself be that thoroughly discomfited by a piece of literature, I think I'm going to have to run the risk of it and pick up a copy of <I>Neuropath</I>. It's been a long time since I engaged that completely with a text.<BR/><BR/>Damn you, you're going to make me do it again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-12146433236738266762008-05-19T17:10:00.000-05:002008-05-19T17:10:00.000-05:00Nathan, I hope you enjoy it, because NP does pose ...Nathan, I hope you enjoy it, because NP does pose quite a few provocative questions, even if I'm unsold on the mechanics of the story. I certainly didn't regret reading it, though.Larry Nolenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16001420558511460998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-24746310892377690482008-05-19T07:26:00.000-05:002008-05-19T07:26:00.000-05:00Well, this sounds fantastic to me. I absolutely lo...Well, this sounds fantastic to me. I absolutely loved Bakker's Prince of Nothing books, in no small measure <I>because</I> they're so much more intellectually ambitious than what high fantasy generally delivers. I can't wait to get my hands on this one.Nathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06529642250097231054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-91430408995021005722008-05-17T09:43:00.000-05:002008-05-17T09:43:00.000-05:00I agree, which is why the book achieves Bakker's g...I agree, which is why the book achieves Bakker's goals for it. It's just one of those books that isn't going to get many lukewarm reactions, which is a greater compliment to it than praising it unreservedly.Larry Nolenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16001420558511460998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-23019400900164336912008-05-17T07:49:00.000-05:002008-05-17T07:49:00.000-05:00" stripping away of protective layers; I felt expo..." stripping away of protective layers; I felt exposed afterwards."<BR/><BR/>Certainly makes me want to read the book! There are too few books that can achieve such reactions on the market...<BR/><BR/>To Amazon.com!Mark Newtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04829431641572291176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-60027218518680392162008-05-16T17:01:00.000-05:002008-05-16T17:01:00.000-05:00Liane,It's not "awful" by any stretch of the word;...Liane,<BR/><BR/>It's not "awful" by any stretch of the word; I think it was well-written and cogently argued. It just isn't likely going to appeal to those who read the more vapid thrillers as their main reading course.Larry Nolenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16001420558511460998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-67639389367418811952008-05-16T10:23:00.000-05:002008-05-16T10:23:00.000-05:00Well that sounds thoroughly awful.Well that sounds thoroughly awful.Lianehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05823039172475280870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-4381636978774680012008-05-15T16:59:00.000-05:002008-05-15T16:59:00.000-05:00Qué? That is but an assessment that is but the in...Qué? That is but an assessment that is but the inverse of the "but I read only for 'escapism' and/or 'entertainment'!" comments that are made. As self-insulting/deprecating as those comments are, you're singling out <I>mine</I>?<BR/><BR/>Interesting.Larry Nolenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16001420558511460998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-47144923192091599222008-05-15T12:03:00.000-05:002008-05-15T12:03:00.000-05:00Therefore, I can only recommend Neuropath, despite...<I>Therefore, I can only recommend Neuropath, despite its merits and despite my personal appreciation of what Bakker has accomplished here, to those who are willing to engage their minds with what is transpiring in the text.</I><BR/><BR/>Larry, I'm perfectly fine with saying that a book is not for everyone and this one seems to fit that bill even more than many, but the way you phrase things is IMO unnecessarily derogatory. I probably wouldn't have mentioned except that it's fairly common in your reviews or other discussions for seemingly derogatory comments to be made - I think it's a big reason why you often get such vehement reactions and that infamous 'elitist' tag. <BR/><BR/>I know that you often like to spice things up a bit to encourage discussion (and I've seen it work rather well), but perhaps your efforts to encourage people to challenge themselves would be more successfull if you were more constructive in your efforts more often.Nethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16963540055415924510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-51660053093700499032008-05-15T11:51:00.000-05:002008-05-15T11:51:00.000-05:00Ken, that is not my intent or what I said. I mere...Ken, that is not my intent or what I said. I merely was referring to those who have been <B>quite</B> explicit in the past about their preference for non-challenging reads; NP is what it is and it won't appeal to all, so how can it be "tiresome" to admit that? I'd rather people try to challenge themselves more, so your comment is a bit...odd.<BR/><BR/>Scott,<BR/><BR/>As for the "neatness," I think it's because I wrote this down in a single draft rather than editing/revising/clarifying/questioning as much as I would in other cases. As I said, it wasn't really a review as much as it was a snapshot of my reactions after completing the re-read. And yes, I do agree on the specific level, there will be individual readers in those overly broad categories who will go against expectations and like/dislike the novel, but I was thinking categorically there, so while there are some inherent flaws in that, there is still enough truth to it, I suspect. As for the preaching to the choir <I>for the choir</I>, I don't see that happening anytime soon. You still have so many parameters of that "Argument" left to explore before that could take place!<BR/><BR/>And I do agree that it'd be nice if people would explore NP first before deciding one way or the other, but perhaps I'm a bit cynical and can't help but to think some are so prejudiced one way or the other that commentaries such as mine will make little difference either way.Larry Nolenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16001420558511460998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-53192902107955563262008-05-15T10:49:00.000-05:002008-05-15T10:49:00.000-05:00I was just checking to see what kind of mischief y...I was just checking to see what kind of mischief you were up to, Larry, and lo and behold!<BR/><BR/>I'm trying to put my finger on what it is I'm taking issue with... I'm not in the habit of arguing with reviews, simply because when you try as hard as I do to hit balls into the left field, some umpires are bound to cry foul. <BR/><BR/>I think it's because your division between kinds of readers and their potential reaction to <I>Neuropath</I> is too clean and neat. I actually think the book will resonate and alienate across the whole spectrum of readers, that a good portion of the people who you assume will like <I>Neuropath</I>, will in fact hate it, and that a good portion of the people who you say will hate it, will in fact like it.<BR/><BR/>I certainly hope so anyway. I'm trying to make a career out of finding new faultlines among readers - and hopefully leaving something of critical value in my wake. As soon as I start preaching to the choir <I>for the choir</I>, I'll be just another literary wanker, and it'll be time to hang up my spurs.<BR/><BR/>I certainly don't think this book is for everyone, though it would be nice if everyone picked a copy up to find out!<BR/><BR/>scott/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-73664568810700338162008-05-15T10:11:00.000-05:002008-05-15T10:11:00.000-05:00it's interesting to read your thoughts on the book...it's interesting to read your thoughts on the book - I hope to start it while I'm on a business trip this week. <BR/><BR/>anyway, I have to say that in-spite of whatever truth there is to it, it does get a bit tiresome when you conistently tell readers that a book is essentially too complicted for them to enjoy it. I'll see shortly, but I get the impression that this book can be 'enjoyed' on multiple levels in spite of its desturbing ideas.Nethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16963540055415924510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-38511267157401175062008-05-15T07:29:00.000-05:002008-05-15T07:29:00.000-05:00I was going to email you this link this morning, S...I was going to email you this link this morning, Scott, but I see you found it anyways!<BR/><BR/>Actually, I was seeing myself <I>outside</I> of the intended audience, which if you think about it in context of the story, is quite ironic ;)<BR/><BR/>And as for the reserved recommendation, those who like only the fluff will likely be frustrated because NP isn't fluff and thus will likely project that frustration outwards in a few forms - sort of like how those who subconsciously <I>get</I> the Argument embedded in Kellhus's character and are troubled by it will consciously think (in some cases, of course, since this is far from an universal) that he is a such a "monster" that "ruins" the story they've been reading. Expectations challenged and all that.<BR/><BR/>More later, perhaps? I have to do the early morning go to work ritual now.Larry Nolenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16001420558511460998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-15251178140821719232008-05-15T06:12:00.000-05:002008-05-15T06:12:00.000-05:00In point of fact it was only a tough sell in the U...In point of fact it was only a tough sell in the USA. It went like hotcakes in every other market - the same pattern as <I>The Prince of Nothing</I>, actually.<BR/><BR/>Otherwise, let me get this right: this was one of the most engaging, troubling reads you've had in thirty-years, and you're recommending that people who don't like arguing with their books NOT read it?<BR/><BR/>You do realize you're actually agreeing with my wife! It was her argument that it was impossible to have it both ways, to write something cerebral and pulse-pounding, that spurred me to write the book in the first place. She totally ate crow after reading it - this from a woman who's far harder on my writing than you, Larry!<BR/><BR/>I guess the debate goes on.<BR/><BR/>Just so you know, though, this book is being pitched to booksellers as a <I>technothriller</I>, so your attempt to imaginatively project yourself into the space of its intended audience is somewhat skewed.<BR/><BR/>scott/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-66910714953757299402008-05-15T04:53:00.000-05:002008-05-15T04:53:00.000-05:00enjoyed reading your thoughts on the book Larry. W...enjoyed reading your thoughts on the book Larry. Would you draw any paralels between Akka and Thomas Bible (with all the internal dialogue and self-doubt going on?)ThRiNiDiRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11235487104345529619noreply@blogger.com