tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post5743150051542331911..comments2024-03-20T19:40:58.078-05:00Comments on The OF Blog: On Tripe, Ho's, Skanks, Feys, Rants, and Other StuffLarry Nolenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16001420558511460998noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-71746373803867940042008-12-17T17:54:00.000-06:002008-12-17T17:54:00.000-06:00The debate contnues to be interesting. At the end ...The debate contnues to be interesting. At the end of the day it still seems mostly about labels. <BR/><BR/>BTW I wouldn't call my video a parody, I certainly didn't frame it with that intent, more of an homage and observation. We all know its about marketing and whats on the cover rarely reflects the contents.<BR/><BR/>Lilith Saintcrow has also followed up on her own post on her blog here - http://www.lilithsaintcrow.com/journal/2008/12/more-thoughts-on-angry-chicks-in-leather/SciFiGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08698799262990588869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-73031868268976608002008-12-17T11:10:00.000-06:002008-12-17T11:10:00.000-06:00And I like Star Trek novels, by the way. But I'm n...And I like <I>Star Trek</I> novels, by the way. But I'm not going to pretend they're anything other than fun entertainment (although Peter David has written some absolutely amazing ones).Eileenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11058705381647529328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-2348049365866884092008-12-17T11:09:00.000-06:002008-12-17T11:09:00.000-06:00Big publishing phenomenon? I was first introduced ...Big publishing phenomenon? I was first introduced to "urban fantasy" while going through Harriet Klausner's Amazon reviews out of morbid curiosity. I've also seen them on sale at the local grocery store.<BR/><BR/>I like your discussion of Lilith Saintcrow's article. Her writing reminded me of an otherwise intelligent friend of mine who tried desperately to defend the <I>Twilight</I> series on an Internet forum. She insisted that the reason so many people like myself criticize it is because we just like to dismiss Young Adult fiction in general (not true - I love Diane Duane's <I>Young Wizards</I> books). She went on to compare Stephenie Meyer to John Keats and Ian Flemming as an authors seen in their own time as "low-brow" but were later recognized as great writers. She then insisted that <I>Twilight</I> is another example of Tolkien's argument that the fantasy genre is constantly building upon itself. She also called it "third-wave feminist."<BR/><BR/>So basically, my point is that people seem to like to come up with "high-brow" or academic arguments to defend their fantasies. But at the end of the day, it's still just pulp.Eileenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11058705381647529328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-78725454547267133052008-12-17T10:55:00.000-06:002008-12-17T10:55:00.000-06:00It's ironic that the rise of the urban fantasy lab...It's ironic that the rise of the urban fantasy label may make the New Weird label more palatable to some. LOL!<BR/><BR/>JeffVAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-79038075339209013942008-12-17T10:35:00.000-06:002008-12-17T10:35:00.000-06:00nice article - I think hit a lot of the reasons th...nice article - I think hit a lot of the reasons that bothered me about her aritcle.<BR/><BR/>I morn the death of 'real' urban fantasy. Perhaps it's time to start calling it 'citypunk'. Afterall, if a sub-genre has punk in it's defintion, it's automatically cool.Nethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16963540055415924510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-41585025610888361082008-12-17T10:04:00.000-06:002008-12-17T10:04:00.000-06:00It's worth pointing out that Lilith's use of "Urba...It's worth pointing out that Lilith's use of "Urban Fantasy" is in line with what publishers and retailers would define the category as. De Lint, Mieville, Houston, et all are Urban Fantasy if you use the term as one of critical theory, but as a specific term for a publishing category (and, frankly, even as a genre) Lilith's take more accurately reflects the facts on the ground. It might have been better if publishers called it Buffy lit, but you can't change it now.<BR/><BR/>And it's hard to judge the category too harshly just becasue it follows market conventions - it's worth remembering that what we call Noir and Hardboiled fiction emerged from the market before it hit the cannon.<BR/><BR/>A lot of the tension readers have about UF can be chalked up to these marketing categories and strategies, and the writers of UF can't really blame readers for being turned off by those conventions. The challenge to UF writers who want to be read by an even wider audience is how to tweak those conventions so that they don't divide readers along gender lines. Kill Bill and True Blood seem to do it, Anita Blake doesn't.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-48763335069063129012008-12-17T06:29:00.000-06:002008-12-17T06:29:00.000-06:00Larry, I nominated you to Kreativ Blogger Award :)...Larry, I nominated you to Kreativ Blogger Award :)<BR/><BR/>http://darkwolfsfantasyreviews.blogspot.com/2008/12/kreativ-blogger-award.htmlMihai A.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08534691063946241019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8068873.post-56723594991762768512008-12-16T20:00:00.000-06:002008-12-16T20:00:00.000-06:00I like your dissection of this piece. I've read a ...I like your dissection of this piece. I've read a few urban fantasies as she defines the term (which I agree was a ridiculously narrow definition) and a few paranormal romances, and I have not read more than a few. As a woman who believes in strong female characters AND moral ambiguity, I find this type of book empty...a different take on the "man with tits" type of "strong female character" but in my opinion suited to that description all the same. Maybe I've just read the wrong ones (haven't read Saintcrow, for example).<BR/><BR/>I liked her point about the movies better. Let's note, however, that none of them were urban fantasy. I think, though, there is simply in general a cultural trend toward discussing the shifting nature of "right and wrong" as I think you've posted about before.<BR/><BR/>Eh. Interesting article, but I think she's very limited by her own POVElenahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09285405662294874917noreply@blogger.com